out own group
Re: out own group
Some fair points about group creation there, Notse. I do not agree, however, that a group cannot create itself, that it always needs some external action. I think there is another way. So let's see how it can be done. Starting with external forces: the one you point out is a systematic oppression based on some group attribute. I would generalize this, and add any external major force. It could be a war (so, another group attacking you) or it may also be some natural disaster.
People unite spontaneously in the presence of any major threat to their existence. They do not need any group attributes for this. So, big threats create groups. Now let's scale it down, and ask what are the minimal requirements to create a group. I think that just one victim is enough. If you have one person killed, a group can be born by claiming that this person died for them. This elevates the victim to the status of a hero. Disagreeing with the claim that he died for the group means challenging his hero status and thus disrespecting the dead, and not just the group. This is a very effective way of creating a group.
Now, where do you take a victim if nobody or nothing is attacking you? Very simple, you create one! I claim that a group can create itself by sacrificing someone, and it is also the most effective way of group creation. Again, anyone suggesting the group does not exist, suggesting that there was no cause to die for or \\ downplaying its importance, would be directly offending the dead. This is something unthinkable, and if one dares to do it, it would only serve to further unify the group. The dead are the group's greatest assets, and if it does not have any it needs to create at least one.
People unite spontaneously in the presence of any major threat to their existence. They do not need any group attributes for this. So, big threats create groups. Now let's scale it down, and ask what are the minimal requirements to create a group. I think that just one victim is enough. If you have one person killed, a group can be born by claiming that this person died for them. This elevates the victim to the status of a hero. Disagreeing with the claim that he died for the group means challenging his hero status and thus disrespecting the dead, and not just the group. This is a very effective way of creating a group.
Now, where do you take a victim if nobody or nothing is attacking you? Very simple, you create one! I claim that a group can create itself by sacrificing someone, and it is also the most effective way of group creation. Again, anyone suggesting the group does not exist, suggesting that there was no cause to die for or \\ downplaying its importance, would be directly offending the dead. This is something unthinkable, and if one dares to do it, it would only serve to further unify the group. The dead are the group's greatest assets, and if it does not have any it needs to create at least one.
Re: out own group
OK cool so who are we gonna kill? i suggest Chipa
Re: out own group
Of course I see that you are joking, Guenga, but, continuing this humorous argument, Chipa would be the best. She is, in a way, the best of us - she is already our hero. To be sacrificed is the greatest honor a group can bestow on its member, so the best should be chosen for it. But, really, anyone is good enough. Whoever is sacrificed will become our first Martyr, and our Hero Number Two. Chipa will always be our Hero Number One, unless she comes out of hiding with some major screw-up.
Re: out own group
your arguments are so stupid that I don't even know why I am replying to you. Honestly, I would have dismissed you as a mono had you not shown to be pretty fluent in moxos.
Maybe it's your native language LOL
Or maybe there's more than one person using your account?
LISTEN KIDDY LET THE MOM'S PHONE ALONE, OK?
Anyway, let me spell it out once and for all, so that other monos that come here with the same wet dreams can be directed to this post.
The desire for a group identity cannot be satisfied without having any enemies. A group does not exist alone, it needs other, opposing, enemy groups to even define itself. If there are no other groups around, the group will initiate a splitting process.
Adolescents will do it. Adolescents are doing it all the time. They will oppose the mother-group, the society they are living in, and attempt to create new groups. This is how group reproduction works. You cannot do anything about it, as you cannot do anything about adolescents' desire to have sex. People reproduce by having sex. Groups reproduce asexually, by forming an opposing group within the mother group. The opposing groups get squashed, or they split off from the mother group or they kill the mother group and happily fight each other. That's the species we belong to, just deal with it. If you don't believe me, go read Chipa.
Re: out own group
Disregard the haters. One Happy Family we shall become, and even the haters will join. Together we shall develop a Plan, and together we shall make it happen. Monos are welcome too, just keep quiet for now, please: read and educate yourselves. Prepare yourself for the Transition.
So, let us begin. First, let us see why Education is the key to our Success. Group identities are based on Beliefs. Beliefs need to be silly, ridiculous, grotesque. It should be obvious that the only reason to hold them is to belong to the group. The more unbelievable a Belief is the better, because it invites people from outside the group to ridicule the members based on something that is key to their group Identity. It is as if they were saying: yes, WE believe in this. Now try to ridicule US and see what happens. Flashy, gaudy elements of dress, tattoos or body modifications serve the same purpose: they are not only a brand, but they also invite ridicule, they entice attacks on the group as such, defining or reinforcing the group Identity. But let's not get away from the key point: Education. Education entails critical thinking, which is a Bane of Beliefs and thus a Vaccine against group membership.
\newline Don't we want, however, to build One Big Group for All? Yes, we do! And for that, we would need our own cultural corpus, but a one that would not be based on beliefs. It shall lack this one feature of a group identity corpus, but it shall be stronger in others. In particular, it should be large and complex. Quoting Chipa, it should be so large and complex that a lifetime would not be enough to study it. So, where do we get a one like this? Very simple! We get all the culture and knowledge amassed by all the civilizations together. Let's study and treasure this incredibly enormous corpus. To a great extent this is what we, as a civilization, are already doing. Preserve and study. All you need is to be curious and motivated to educate yourself.
So, let us begin. First, let us see why Education is the key to our Success. Group identities are based on Beliefs. Beliefs need to be silly, ridiculous, grotesque. It should be obvious that the only reason to hold them is to belong to the group. The more unbelievable a Belief is the better, because it invites people from outside the group to ridicule the members based on something that is key to their group Identity. It is as if they were saying: yes, WE believe in this. Now try to ridicule US and see what happens. Flashy, gaudy elements of dress, tattoos or body modifications serve the same purpose: they are not only a brand, but they also invite ridicule, they entice attacks on the group as such, defining or reinforcing the group Identity. But let's not get away from the key point: Education. Education entails critical thinking, which is a Bane of Beliefs and thus a Vaccine against group membership.
\newline Don't we want, however, to build One Big Group for All? Yes, we do! And for that, we would need our own cultural corpus, but a one that would not be based on beliefs. It shall lack this one feature of a group identity corpus, but it shall be stronger in others. In particular, it should be large and complex. Quoting Chipa, it should be so large and complex that a lifetime would not be enough to study it. So, where do we get a one like this? Very simple! We get all the culture and knowledge amassed by all the civilizations together. Let's study and treasure this incredibly enormous corpus. To a great extent this is what we, as a civilization, are already doing. Preserve and study. All you need is to be curious and motivated to educate yourself.
Re: out own group
The importance of culture, be it the cultures of past civilizations or contemporary societies, is a fallacy. It has been known for decades that children are able to create a language pretty much from scratch. A community of adults that doesn't have a common language develops a pidgin that lacks any grammar and is functionally very limited. A single generation of children is sufficient to form a fully-fledged language, with all its grammatical complexity, from such a pidgin. Similarly, just one generation of adolescents is enough to form a cultural corpus. If their need for a social identity is not completely satisfied, they will create a culture from whatever their environment gives them: music, tv shows, commercials, series, even consumer products and their wrappings. You can marvel at the sophistication of the art of ancient Egypt, and you can argue for the need to preserve it for the future generations to study, but every school creates a culture just as functional every three to five years.
And not just one but several, to satisfy the need of having groups one belongs to and groups one does not belong to. Should we preserve the vestiges of the dead groups? Sure. Each of them is as interesting and important to study as every different virus is to a virologist. But a culture is more primitive than a virus, even if it may be just as unique. If a society is a parasite on an individual (it is), then it is a much more primitive one than a virus, and a cultural corpus is not even all of the parasite, but only its shit.
Yes, culture is shit.
And language is shit.
Go educate yourself and study your shit if you like it.
Right now we only need to read Chipa and references therein.
And not just one but several, to satisfy the need of having groups one belongs to and groups one does not belong to. Should we preserve the vestiges of the dead groups? Sure. Each of them is as interesting and important to study as every different virus is to a virologist. But a culture is more primitive than a virus, even if it may be just as unique. If a society is a parasite on an individual (it is), then it is a much more primitive one than a virus, and a cultural corpus is not even all of the parasite, but only its shit.
Yes, culture is shit.
And language is shit.
Go educate yourself and study your shit if you like it.
Right now we only need to read Chipa and references therein.
Re: out own group
Guenga, and why don't you suggest yourself for this role? Why don't you become our Mohamed Bouazizi? You can be a hero too! Of course it's better if it's the enemy that kills you, but, as you rightly point out, one should start somewhere. If we don't have any enemy, then instead of choosing whom to sacrifice, we could use the process of self-delegation, so to speak. I mean, I'm just continuing your own argument to its logical conclusion.